From: Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@...>
Date: 2005-12-22T16:07:24+09:00
Subject: Re: Unix is not an *I*DE (Was: Any TextMate Editor equivelent for Windows ?)

On 12/22/05, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:

> That depends on what you mean by "integrated".  I mean "integrated" in
> that, once I get it all set up, it works together beautifully.  You seem
> to mean "integrated" as in "someone else integrated what they like, and
> now I have to live with it".

My only point is that it does not make sense in the terms of what the
OP was looking for to suggest GNU/Linux as an option and claim it's an
IDE.  It's not.

I am a loyal *nix user, but it begins to get annoying when people
evangelize the platform for the wrong reasons to the wrong target
audience.

I doubt anyone would describe any operating system, much less one as
fragmented as GNU/Linux, as being an IDE.  The meaning of the word is
rather clear (to most people).

I guess what I'm saying is, rather than making some random comment
about how GNU/ Linux IS your IDE, you might have explained why
GNU/Linux might preclude the need for an IDE in the first place.

That would be more helpful.  I am seeing more and more threads with
people begging us not to flame on about our particular choices for
various things.  I also see a lot of 'community x is very opinionated
about technology or concept y'

To me, that type of logic fits ideally in some places, not so much in
others.  If someone is looking for VisualStudio for Ruby, don't offer
them shell scripts and vim.   And if you do, make a good (and
understandable) case for them.  The goal is to help people here,
right?

Sorry for ranting on... I just think things like this make the
difference when it comes to helping people.   Either answer the
question as best as you can or explain why there is a better question
they can be asking.

KDevelop is an IDE as someone pointed out.   GNU/Linux is not.   Under
your assumption, one could percieve that notepad running on windows,
an FTP server to a *nix box somewhere on the internet, a web browser,
and a toaster with little jet engines on it running via some RPC
somehow constitutes an Integrated Development Environment.

Do I feel like my environment works nicely with everything else on my
Gentoo box?   Absolutely.
But be careful using technical words to describe your own (rather
peculiar) abstract concept regarding a specific software
categorization.

And finally, a little bit of real content in the midst of a rant:

From wikipedia:
"Today, the term "IDE" is a contrast to unrelated command-line tools,
such as vi, emacs, or make. While one could think of Unix as an IDE,
most developers think of an IDE as being (or having the appearance of)
a single program in which all development is done."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment)

I get what you're saying, I just think it's a little off the mark and
misleading to people who might not clearly understand the subtle
difference between an integrated environment and a tool oriented
system.

Anyway, that's enough rambling on.   As long as you're coding happily
in whatever environment that works for you, I suppose the name doesn't
matter terribly.   I've just always been one for semantics.

-Greg