From: "Nathaniel S. H. Brown" Date: 2005-11-04T10:51:52+09:00 Subject: Re: Ruby Certification > On 11/3/05, Nathaniel S. H. Brown wrote: > > > > James, not to deflate what seems to be a rather large ego, > but not all > > of us are as core in Ruby community as you are clearly announcing. > > Um, excuse me, you are certainly not going to ingratiate > yourself to those of us in the "core Ruby community" by > needlessly insulting someone who has made a lot of valuable > contributions to the Ruby world, simply because he has an > opinion contrary to yours. > I am not trying to degrade any of his accomplishments, nor win over any of the other people on this list. His mentioned confidence boosters have likely rippled into my experience learning Ruby, and likely many others, which is an accomplishment of itself. But, having put some effort towards a personal, more self accomplishment of completing a certification, similar to many of the people on this list by which of having a bachelors, masters, or even a PhD in computer science or the like. It is an accomplishment, and should give someone a sense of accomplishment and confidence after completing. Albeit, that a certification does not benefit anyone else directly other than the person by which was certified, it should be considered a fair non-biased guarantee that the areas of a course on such a language are understood. This is entirely dependant on the issuer, who would have to be trusted by those to accept the guarantee. > Plus the beauty of the Ruby community is that it doesn't take > too much to become a real star. David Heinemeier Hansson > pretty much came out of nowhere a year ago and is now an > extremely well known name in the Ruby world, all because of > Rails and how he used the power of Ruby to create it. > His path is a rarity in any industry, and is definitely a great means to get noticed. But having our entire society measured by open contribution is not feasible as a be-all-and-end all. It should undoubtably be a major enhancement to any applicants resume, but not the only method by which to measure a candidate. A certification would simply enhance the visibility, to lead to a first interview. After that, it would be up to the candidate to prove themselves and negotiate a deal. On nearly every job posting out there, it says degree in a related field, or equivalent experience. Having a certification and the experience puts you in a more favourable position than someone with the same experience, on paper. The rest is up to the interview itself, and how you sell yourself in process after they have decided to consider your application. > > Others need > > stepping stones to ensure that all the bases are covered > when it comes > > to programming the language. Having a certification from a > reputable > > issuer, ensures that all the fundamentals, and hopefully > some of the > > advanced concepts are covered. If you are new to the > langauge, as most > > are, the inherant credibility of a certification would > ensure that all > > topics are covered and would hopefully give one with the > certification > > an appreciation that indeed, they are able to confidently tackle a > > Ruby project from all angles with the best practices in > mind, security and otherwise. > > I agree with the others that certifications have little > value, and that all (and more) of what you are suggesting > above could be gotten by contributing to an open souce > project. The only problem is that would take more time than > some silly certification course, and I guess therein lies the > problem...lazy people wants results fast so they can jump on > the bandwagon with little effort. Sorry but no > self-respecting Ruby shop is going to get on that boat. > How can putting the effort into getting certified be considered lazy? It takes energy, time, and commitment to take any certification, or degree for that matter. Blindly disregarding a certification, simply doesn't seem like a very wise choice. Nor does putting all your faith in it as well. It is a complement to your resume, something to enhance your chance to get noticed, and in that first interview. After that, it is up to you. > > If you had never programmed before, where would you start? Likely > > being self taught you would start sifting through google, maybe > > checkout the ruby mailing lists and put together your own > amalgamation of what "The Ruby Way" > > is. A school, if credible, would only certify that you know the way. > > I strongly disagree. I've got a simple paraphrase that > explains how most Ruby programmers would judge another: "Show > me the code!!!" When learning something from nothing, you need to start superficially for it to be easily, and quickly digested, then you move into something more specific, such as the code. Looking at code is one of the best ways to learn a language, but what happens when you start reading a someone else who is on a blind path along the ruby way? Reading the blogs, wiki, mailing lists, and such, only ensures that when you read the code, you have a superficial foundation by which to put some of the pieces together. Of course, I am only speaking from my experience learning Ruby, and trying other methods learning other such languages. Warmest regards, Nathan. -------------------------------------------------------------- Nathaniel S. H. 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