From: James Britt <james_b@...>
Date: 2005-11-04T01:40:09+09:00
Subject: Re: Ruby Certification

Daniel Lewis wrote:
>>I have a hard time believing that someone experienced with only C and
>>Java, however good they are with them, can really learn Lisp or Haskell
>>by looking at some examples.
> 
> But if you know the concepts of declarative programming, then lisp
> will be easy. If you know the concepts of functional programming then
> Haskell will be easy. 

That sounds very much like begging the question.

Yes, if you understand the concepts of functional programming, then 
learning a functional programming language should be reasonably 
straightforward.

> My point was merely on a syntax level. Once you
> have the syntax, then people can delve into the other concepts. For
> example, I'd like to know how Ruby can work functionally, I'm not
> rushing into learning that straight away, I want to learn the
> syntax/key-words first.
> 

JavaScript is an unjustly maligned language.  It has fair amount of 
Lisp-y qualities.  It has closures.  It has (more or less) open 
'classes'.  Yet 99% of the JavaScript one encounters looks suspiciously 
like C or Java.  Most JavaScript books I've seen don't even *mention* 
'prototype', let alone give examples using it.  And if they do mention 
it, they don't do a good job of explaining the implications.  So, 
people (well, Java/C/VB coders mainly) look at it, make a mental note, 
then never use it because it doesn't readily map to an known concept.

Folks go and learn the syntax that is already familiar, and don't learn 
the language itself.

Folks at RubyConf 2005 saw at least half the crowd go off to listen to 
Chad Fowler and Jim Weirich talk about continuations.  The two did a 
really good job of explaining what they are and how they work (and 
Thanks! I learned a lot).  But for those of us who are not already 
experienced in using continuations, there's still a fair amount of work 
to do to fully understand when and where and why continuations would 
make for an appropriate solution to some programming task.  I'd venture 
that most of the audience left knowing continuation syntax, but far 
fewer could make practical use of them. That's not the fault of Chad and 
Jim.  Skill to do comes of doing, and even then you may need guides to 
poke you with a stick until you reach enlightenment.

And that's my beef with many certification programs and tutorials.  They 
tend to be syntax-centric.  You don't really learn the language; you 
learn how to construct syntacticly-correct scripts to accomplish tasks 
without errors (which, truthfully, is often all some people need to know).

Perhaps the best way to learn Ruby is to post code to ruby-talk and 
invite public criticism.  You'll get enlightened soon enough.


James

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