From: Doug Kearns Date: 2005-10-12T21:25:58+09:00 Subject: Re: verifying proper vim-ruby install Sheesh, I'm really getting tired of these vim-ruby threads on ruby-talk... ;-) On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 06:39:49PM +0900, Nikolai Weibull wrote: > Gavin Sinclair wrote: > > Furthermore, Vim is a popular editor, so > > discussing Ruby-related aspects of its use is likely to be of interest > > to a lot of readers of this group. > > That assumes that every project maintainer/developer actually listens to > ruby-talk. A year ago I couldn’t, as it was being blocked by a > anti-spam service that shall remain nameless. Well, that is currently an accurate assumption - Gavin, Tim, Hugh, you and I are all here. I certainly agree that it would be better for most of these exchanges to occur on vim-ruby-devel as, I think, they currently do. The problem is a lot of users seem to find it easier to tag a comment on the end of an ANN message rather than post a bug report or a support request. I don't think that's only a problem for our project. > > And I don't echo the RTFM stuff, either. A question from a reasonable > > person means something wasn't clear to a user that was clear to a > > developer. The sensible resolution: developer thanks user and tries > > to make the software clearer in what it's doing, or whatever. So > > thanks, Mark. > > How was this clear to a developer? In the end it wasn't and I guessed incorrectly as to why Mark was even asking. Don't forget many Vim users (not referencing Mark here) simply use Vim with the basic editing commands and have very limited understanding of its potential. It's actually one of the first pieces of software I ever learned to use and I _still_ find the documentation baffling at times. Not because it's incomplete, far from it, but because you have to maintain so much context when reading it. See my last two 'lazy' messages to vim-dev. ;-) > And by the way, I haven’t been paid a cent for any of my work, so excuse > me if I don’t feel that I have the energy to thank every user and answer > every question. *sob* ;-) > Something that should perhaps been taken off-list: Agreed; but maybe some actual _users_ will chime in with some useful remarks. > I guess my grief stems from an overall dislike for the over-inflated > importance of the vim-ruby project as a separate entity. No one has ever accused me of inflated self-importance before... ;-) How is it any more separate than any of the thousand individually maintained runtime files? > As all (?) the > files are included in the Vim distribution anyway, why not just keep it > there? I don't understand this at all. How exactly are they not "there"? The files in this project are currently 'maintained' in exactly the same way as all runtime files with the one exception that they are released together as a package for the end user's benefit. Every time they're considered suitably improved they are released to users and a copy sent to BM. That's how all runtime files are maintained. Secondly, there has been some talk of including additions like your 'electric' functions which wouldn't, I imagine, be distributed with Vim. > So far, this separation has made us miss an important release, > namely 6.3, that contained the old files instead. That was simply due to a miscommunication rather than an inherent problem with this supposed separation. BM gives very little warning of a new release - ten days for 6.3. As I was probably doing the most work prior to that release I could probably have been more helpful to Gavin in organizing it but happened to be away. That said, I doubt we're the first or last to miss a release. Do you remember the disastrous sh.vim included a few releases ago? Poor Chip... > The 6.3 release will > finally be superseded by 6.4, but that’s been over a year of questions > regarding what files to use, how to install, and a general confusion > over what’s going on. Right, but this is solved. Now we should only have to endure the same annoying questions as all the other runtime file maintainers. The distribution of these files between Vim releases is just plain broken. I've spent more than a few minutes trying to track down updated versions of yours after the 6.3 release. For example, http://www.pcppopper.org/vim/ftplugin/pcp/zsh/ isn't providing me with much joy right now. I'd find a Vim/Weibull project pretty handy, I reckon. ;-) What should really happen is that all the latest runtime files should be posted to www.vim.org, or similar, and stored there between releases rather than being distributed across hundreds of websites. They're not even added to Vim's CVS repository between releases! > To me, _the sensible resolution_ would be to merge the vim-ruby project > with mainline Vim so that there won’t be any need for RTFMs from me or > “How do I install vim-ruby” from users, Again, the only difference from the maintenance of the other runtime files is that we distribute them together and with Gavin's nifty installer. When he added it and the gem I'll confess that I considered it overkill but there seems to be several hundred people using Gems to install the runtime files every release which accounts for a little less than half the downloads. > nikolai (25 years old and ready for anger management to save his > poor heart) Heh, many of us were 25 and angry once... ;-) Regards, Doug