From: Jeff Wood <jeff.darklight@...>
Date: 2005-09-27T23:55:02+09:00
Subject: Re: Fwd: Lisp macros

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Based on the discussion, if he's watching ( Matz? ) ... would you please
enlighten us with your feelings?

... I for one have never minded having "too much power". It's the exercise
of responsibility that makes programming an art.

j.

On 9/27/05, Ben <benbelly@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/27/05, Jim Freeze <jim@freeze.org> wrote:
> > On 9/27/05, Ben <benbelly@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is a cop-out. Every time a new language comes around and
> >
> > Hmm, that is strong language. Do you think Matz has made a bad decision
> > here? Ruby does have lambda's. If you really need a lisp like language,
> > there is always Lisp. :)
> >
>
> I'm not meaning to be insulting, but saying that something is too
> dangerous to put in the hands of the uneducated is almost always a way
> of evading a question rather than answering it. How about:
> "The goals I am pursuing with Ruby (list goals) will not be achieved
> any better with macros"
> "The syntax and language structure I like for Ruby will not support
> macros in an intuitive, maintainable way" (I certainly agree with
> this)
> "I don't believe the benefits of macros are worth the effort of
> supporting them in the interpreter and training developers to use
> them."
>
> If the reason is really that they are too scary, say why:
> "The delayed evaluation necessary to support macros runs contrary to
> the rest of the language. This lack of clarity will prove a hindrance
> to the quick development I intended Ruby to support. Also, exporting
> to the client of a class those implementation details (method or
> macro) violates encapsulation which will increase the learning curve
> of the language."
>
> I'm probably overreacting, but I feel patronized when I'm told I can't
> have something because it's "too easy to abuse". :)
>
> -Ben
>
>


--
"http://ruby-lang.org -- do you ruby?"

Jeff Wood

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