From: Sarah Tanembaum <sarahtanembaum@...>
Date: 2005-01-07T07:31:30+09:00
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Re: [BOUNTY] Shopping cart ...

Aredridel wrote:
>>More to the subject, I believe such an application does not exist
>>because it is too easy to build your own version of it. Integrating a
>>third party shopping cart with a Rails application is probably bound to
>>be more difficult than just coding it up yourself. A shopping cart has
>>many dependencies to the web application framework and thus it is not
>>completely trivial to program a framework-less version of a shopping
>>cart  as the first post asks for. 
>>
>>I would need to see a few (html) screenshots of such an application to
>>completely understand what is asked for here. 
> 
> 
> Sounds familiar; A good example of right, or at least close, is Paypal's
> own shopping cart system.
> 
> Here's a conversation in #IOWA about what I'd love to see (And would
> happily shell out $100 for a working version of without even flinching.
> I wonder how many other people out in Rubyland would do the same, to get
> a small project like this off the ground.)
> 
> [12:21:02] swsch says “I'm intrigued by the postings responding to
> Aredridel's BOUNTY offer... all "known" people say that it's easy but
> they won't do it .-)”
> [12:23:01] Aredridel says “Hehe.”
> [12:23:08] Aredridel says “That's the thing about shopping carts.”
> [12:23:18] Aredridel says “It requires this firm, say-no-by-default hand
> to create a good one.”
> [12:23:24] Aredridel says “It's a surprisingly hard thing to make”
> [12:23:40] swsch says “lots of people said "no" already :-)”
> [12:23:56] Aredridel says “Hehe, yeah.”
> [12:26:09] wyhaines says “Yeah, the discussion IS interesting.”
> [12:26:56] swsch says “why wouldn't you use a database? to avoid
> expensive hosting packages?”
> [12:28:13] Aredridel says “That's the idea, yes.”
> [12:28:16] Aredridel says “Or moreso, to keep it simple.”
> [12:28:27] Aredridel says “I don't want a product entry screen, I don't
> want a product database.”
> [12:28:38] Aredridel says “I'd be quite content to just put that in the
> HTML.”
> [12:28:57] Aredridel says “Paypal or CCNow style: Their shopping cart
> systems don't know about your product list at all.”
> [12:29:21] Aredridel says “You just refer a client's computer to their
> cart with a token containing all the info.”
> [12:29:28] Aredridel says “So your site posts to theirs, that's all.”
> [12:29:50] Aredridel says “Tamperable? sure. I could place an order for
> Fooitem for $0.01.”
> [12:29:57] Aredridel says “Problem? No.”
> [12:30:00] Aredridel says “I just don't ship it.”
> [12:30:18] Aredridel says “I call 'em up and say "Something's funny
> about your order; that's not the right price."”
> [12:31:58] Aredridel says “And it works if nobody tampers. Big deal.”
> [12:32:35] Aredridel says “All e-commerce engines fall in three
> categories: simple and works for small sites, complex but not having the
> right features (works for nobody), or high-end, expensive, and works for
> those who need it.”
> [12:36:16] wyhaines says “Aredridel, take a look at this:
> http://napkinsbydesign.com”
> [12:36:23] wyhaines says “Then click on, say, Table Runners.”
> [12:36:36] wyhaines says “Is that the sort of "shopping cart" that you
> want?”
> [12:37:00] Aredridel says “Close. Not quite.”
> [12:37:10] Aredridel says “That's paypal's cart  system — that's the
> part I want.”
> [12:37:15] Aredridel says “The product lists I can just do in HTML”
> [12:37:25] Aredridel says “I'd love to (this is for Instiki,
> actually...)”
> [12:37:36] Aredridel says “I'd love to hack instiki so I can just write
> markup like so:”
> [12:37:53] Aredridel says “[[Product: Ruby Slippers; Price: $10]]”
> [12:37:58] wyhaines says “Yeah, it leverages paypal's cart.  That's all
> user controlled there, though.  I don't have to touch it.”
> [12:38:18] wyhaines says “It runs via a web form, but is kind of like
> what you describe.”
> [12:38:18] Aredridel says “And have that render as a form that has a
> submit button, a quantity field, and two hidden fields: the item, and
> the price.”
> [12:39:10] Aredridel says “And have it post to the cart handler, which
> would show the cart (basically, the cart is a thin wrapper for a session
> database), and then the checkout procedure takes their info, and then
> links to the gateway of choice for checkout.”
> [12:39:40] Aredridel says “Basically, I don't want a catalog system at
> all. -Just- the cart.”
> [12:40:02] Aredridel says “I want the link between the cart and catalog
> to be very weak.”
> [12:40:24] Aredridel says “I want the post data to link one way. I want
> the cart to look like the rest of the site only by templating, not by
> any integration.”
> [12:41:01] Aredridel says “and if the cart could link back with a
> "return to shopping" link that linked to the referer, so much the
> better.”
> [12:41:43] Aredridel says “Basically, the only interface between the two
> parts of the site would be HTTP. No shared database, no catalog on file,
> nothing. The shopping cart just runs in a cgi-bin on some host, and
> that's it.”
> [12:41:56] wyhaines says “That does sound pretty easy to do.  If my wife
> were a little farther along in her Ruby studies, I'd give it to her as
> an assignment.”
> [12:42:01] Aredridel grins.
> [12:42:12] Aredridel says “The hardest part is keeping the thing
> featureless enough.”
> [12:42:40] Aredridel says “Basically, I want SPOT — but not by having
> everything generated from the same source, but by editing things
> directly.”
> [12:43:42] Aredridel says “... wyhaines, the napkinsbydesign site is
> -fast-. Kudos.”
> [12:43:42] swsch says “see? another "no"!”
> [12:44:11] Aredridel says “Can I post this snippet of conversation in
> response to that thread?”
> 
> 
> 
> 
I thought it would be easier than PHP and perhaps smaller code because 
of Ruby elegance, why would it takes so much effort? Perhaps Ruby is not 
ready for the kind of project we discuss?