From: Abe Vionas_MailingList Date: 2004-10-28T00:14:36+09:00 Subject: Re: The real Ruby vs. Python. On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:29:29 +0900, David Ross wrote: >�Abe Vionas_MailingList wrote: > >>�What it comes down to is what it's coming down to for me... >>�platform maturity. >> >>�Python on windows has a broad range of libraries >>�available for anything you could ever dream of: >>�Apache, Java, Email, Protocols, GTK, Qt, Tk, OpenGL, PostgreSQL, >>�MySQL, etc etc etc. As far as Python >>�library availability for Linux, I really don't know, as I was >>�only looking for windows stuff last night. My feeling is that >>�while not being quite as comprehensive as it's windows offerings >>�it still offers a good depth. >> >>�Ruby, on the other hand, while it has a comprehensive offering on >>�the Linux platform, is hamstrung on >>�windows by it's lack in important areas. If libraries exist, they >>�more often then not are NOT being actively maintained (my >>�research last night indicated that by and large more Python >>�libraries are continually actively maintained). This last point >>�is important >>�because at one time or another Ruby has HAD libraries to cover >>�any need, but without active maintenance they are nearly >>�worthless. I for one will not even look at a library that hasn't >>�had a release in 2004. >> >> >�Binary releases are sometimes a problem, most of us are unix users, >�there are some windows users. I think a few need to get together >�and compile windows binaries. Hopefully, I will be able to continue >�to have access to a win2k machine and compile much for the RPA ruby >�packaging system. Sorry it didnt work out for you. I will be having >�a GUI for RPA soon. I'm the type of person who does think about >�Windows users and GUIs for the people who might not know typical >�compiling routines. Some linuxes just have a packaging system for >�them to do it for them, I have BSD. I know its not easy on windows, >�I will get some effort into helping RPA witht he GUI and compiling >�windows binaries. > >�What exactly are you needing? What type of developer are you? and >�What are the type of modules do you regularly use on Windows? > >�I'm not a frequent windows developer, but I do know a �great deal >�about Windows programming. Effort to solve the Windows area is >�underway. > I'm a relatively "simple" developer, but I do want to be able to do web work with Ruby without having to use a framework, even though there are some excellent frameworks out there. For me the really important modules are GUI, web (not frameworks, they're being very comprehensively developed), databases (in particular the open source databases), windows API, and as a side interest graphics/SWF/etc. > >>�So, this is what it comes down to for me... Which >>�language offers what I need in terms of libraries? I decided to >>�go looking after having an excrutiating time finding just Ruby >>�FastCGI, mod_ruby, and PostgreSQL libraries which would actually >>�work on Windows - forget being maintained at all. No luck >>�though. Even a post to the Ruby-Talk list asking for help with an >>�attempt to install FastCGI for Ruby yielded only one reply. >> >> >�I seen your question, I didn't know the answer though. Did you try >�the maintainer? > I didn't. I suppose I thought if only one person replied on the list I wouldn't fair as well with the maintainer either. >>�Finally, while the Ruby Gem system is exceptionally >>�easy to work with and a real boon to Ruby, it doesn't quite match >>�the ease of installing ANY given Python library. Every Python >>�windows library for the most part comes with a windows installer >>�(exe or msi). >> >> >�Would you rather have a GUI, and/or executables which can be >�installed? hmm thoughts for RPA Well, the Ruby Gem system is excellent as I mentioned before, the primary issue is with those packages released without a Gem. At least for me that's where it can get hairy. A Ruby Gem GUI would simply be an improvement on an already outstanding utility. I suppose this requires some focus by and on behalf of Windows Ruby developers. I'm simply too much of a newb to be much good as a leader in such an area at this time. > >>�Keep in mind that it may be more doable to run Ruby on windows >>�given substantial C programming/compiling experience, I don't >>�know. Obviously, if I had the >>�experience to satisfy that statement I would be able to answer my >>�own question. : -) >> >> >�No problem. What problems were you having, besides fastcgi, and I >�can look in to it on my spare time. > I'd certainly appreciate it! Mostly I experienced a great deal of frustration with trying to get the Ruby-->Apache link established (couldn't find an applicable, functioning package), and secondly, I couldn't find a Ruby-->PostgreSQL which seemed to be actively maintained. Those that I found seemed like they'd be stable, but wouldn't be current with newer releases of PostgreSQL. >>�So, for those of us who aren't C gurus and don't run Linux, >>�Python seems to win out when compared to Ruby. Which is >>�unfortunate because I really love Ruby, and don't like a number >>�of Python elements. However, >>�having the capabilities I need is much more important than syntax >>�preferences at the moment. >> >>�Sadly, in order for Ruby to really take over the world it will >>�require a more substantial focus on providing windows compatible >>�libraries and maintaining those libraries. If Ruby continues to >>�be a Linux-centric >>�language... I don't know. It just seems to me fairly obvious that >>�in order to have true dominance you have to meet the needs of the >>�major platforms. Python does this moreso then Ruby. And believe >>�me, I wish it were the other way around. >> > >�please use the term, unix-centric. I'm a BSDuser :) Thanks. Of course, did I say Linux? I meant Unix. : -) > >�Also, I agree, Ruby is more towards unix, some of the developers >�dislike programming on windows, not mentioning any names but he >�knows who he is :). Its not so much that libraries are unix- >�centric, but someone needs to compile the libraries on Windows. >�Most libraries already work well with windows, but its a compiling >�issue. I've noticed this. It's really unfortunate because in a case like this the only way to beat them is to join them (windows people). Help us bridge the gap between windows and unix (or whatever) and windows will loose it's dominance. Yep, the compiling complications are overwhelming to someone as inexperienced with such as myself. I appreciate your offer of help, and I'd be more than enthused to get my hands on a functioning, current module for ruby-apache2, ruby-postgresql. Regards, Abe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail