From: Mikael Brockman <mikael@...>
Date: 2004-08-31T06:26:22+09:00
Subject: Re: Typos (Was: performance comparison)

David Ross <drossruby@yahoo.com> writes:

> --- Mark Probert <probertm@nospam-acm.org> wrote:
> 
> > David Ross <drossruby@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > You can use C for anything you use ruby on.
> > >
> > Of course you are right.  Ruby is written  in C ..
> > QED.
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > I am sure most
> > > people talk bad about C are not professional at
> > all.
> > > 
> > 
> > Ever worked as a maintenance programmer?  Ever fixed
> > bugs that other 
> > engineers had introduced into the code?  Ever found
> > that some of those 
> > bugs   where simple stuff, like array bounds
> > violations or null pointer 
> > assignments?  Then, have you tried going up to the
> > original coder and 
> > telling them that they are not professional?
> > 
> > There are better ways of coding in C.  Try, for
> > example
> > 
> >  
> > http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/cweb.html
> > 
> > There are better ways of improving in any language 
> > 
> >   http://www.sei.cmu.edu/tsp/psp.html
> > 
> > Both of these approaches have been used by People
> > Who Know A Lot (Knuth 
> > and Humphries) and both have been shown to work
> > (I've used both and know 
> > they work).  
> > 
> > Why do more people not use them?  Why is our code
> > still riddled with 
> > basic errors?  
> > 
> > (Hint:  it has nothing to do with the language,
> > though the language will 
> > have an impact.  C is less, errrr, helpful, to the
> > less experienced).
> > 
> > -- 
> > -mark.  (probertm @ acm dot org)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> I agree on all points. It is humans who make errors.
> To the experienced C is bliss. (* and assembly) (*even
> if there is some stress figuring out what is wrong in
> the program). After swearing some and hitting the
> computer a few times it is okay. Oh and making fun of
> the original code and all the bad hacks they did to
> make the code work. (=

I love C.  I think it's great for implementing designs.  On the other
hand, it makes you do a lot of up-front work to get anything running.
That doesn't really encourage you to be agile.  But to create original
software, you have to sketch a lot.  Often you won't even know what you
want to create.  You have to figure that out as you go.

Dynamic & high level languages attach less cost to changing.  They
encourage you to experiment.  That's not very valuable if you're just
implementing something you designed up-front.  But it's absolutely
essential if you're not.

Using C to create original software isn't bliss.  It's like being in a
straight-jacket. But considering you're a fan of Ada, I guess you like
that kinda stuff.