From: vruz <horacio.lopez@...>
Date: 2004-08-17T05:35:12+09:00
Subject: Re: About ruvi

> I think that a whole bunch of people need to settle down and stop
> pretending that this is a free speech issue -- and I'm not just
> referring to ruvi

I can't respond for "a bunch of people", but since you have replied
to my previous email I understand you are talking to me.

>. I think that ruvi is a neat idea, but Gavin and
> Hans are right: unless you're targeting 80% or more of vim's
> features, there's no sense in calling it a vim clone. Calling it,
> perhaps, a vi-alike editor, or vimlike editor, would be more
> accurate.

I agree Alex's claim may seem grandiose.
Yet, if you have a look at the code, the ruvi core is complete,
(albeit arguably not mature) anyone can extend it and improve
its feature set to comply with the original vim.

It depends if you have a loook at your favourite keystroke, you 
notice it's not there, and you jump to the ML to complain about it.
 

> > Now, let's all repeat:
> > "Free Speech, Free Speech, Free Speech"
> 
> A number of folks from #ruby-lang have used this defence in the last
> couple of weeks. Here's a clue: free speech doesn't work that way.

Again, I'm not a number of folks, if you have something to say
about my post, I'm glad to discuss it.

> Free speech includes taking responsibility for one's words. There
> are no moderators on ruby-talk or clr. Absolutely no one has
> suggested that the people involved stop releasing software or
> talking about it on the list.

I am responsible for my words, not sure what may have possibly
made you think otherwise.
I'm not one to dilute responsabilities behind a crowd.

I honestly feel different than you do regarding this issue, and 
you're right, it's not just about this thread, but about the 
general ambience in the ML.

There are many subtle ways to impose opinions, and I still
believe some people do that pretty consistently.

Strictly speaking about Freedom of Speech:

To me, anyone telling another person "don't say that", "don't claim that", 
or "don't do that" is some kind of censorship.

Of course polite suggestions, constructive examples on how to 
improve works are always more than welcome, but this has not been
the tone of the ML in a while now.

I reckon I have added some temperature into the equation.

My only intent was to raise some awareness of the power
words can have on people's egos, attitudes and incentivation.

I know this approach isn't doing a service to the ruby community,
so I welcome anyone who may want to discuss this on irc
or via private email.


> It is a discussion about misleading claims regarding a project that
> otherwise looks very interesting. I would suggest to Alexander that
> he change the claims because otherwise people will be very
> disappointed.

That's a nice and constructive suggestion, the way it should have
always been from our fellow ruby users, it's very clear to me your
suggestion is in contrast of many previous posts.
 
> -austin
> --
> Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
>                * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca

Thanks Austin, thank you all guys.

                                    vruz