From: Nicholas Van Weerdenburg Date: 2004-06-10T14:46:03+09:00 Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Unit tests ... not just for the young No I haven't. Eiffel and Dylan are two other languages I've noted floating in the zeitgeist as worth exploring. I'm mainly focusing on Ruby and Emacs Lisp at the moment. I tried Smalltalk via Squeak, but found Squeak very bizarre, so I moved onto lisp/scheme for amusement for now. Actually, Ruby blocks as an example of higher-order-functions led me through about six hours of reading ruby-python discussions, which led me to lisp comparisions, which lead to scheme, etc. Hyperlinks are evil :). That said, Ruby does seem to be a truly inspired melding all the different language capabilities. Has Dylan ever been used for production software? Nick Tyler Zesiger wrote: > Have you checked out Dylan? It's a bit of an improvement over > smalltalk supposedly. I've been looking it over, and I like it so far. > > Nicholas Van Weerdenburg wrote: > >> Then I realized Java sucks, so I'm now learning ruby, python, lisp, >> smalltalk and scheme. Now I am just confused, and wonder how >> civilization ever happened :). >> > > [snip] > >> Nick >> >> Jean-Hugues ROBERT wrote: >> >>> ... snipped... >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At my company, we have two career tracks (called ladders): >>>> Technical and Managerial. >>>> >>>> You can be either an individual contributor, or a manager. :) >>>> Some tech people are team leads or may have direct reports, >>>> but they are not considered managers -- I'm not sure >>>> where the line is drawn. >>>> >>>> As for myself, I can't bring myself to aspire to a manager >>>> position yet. Maybe when I am older (like 80). There >>>> are some multi talented people out there, but I wonder if >>>> a good programmer can really aspire to a managerial postion. >>>> >>>> To be a good programmer, you really have to love what you do. >>>> How could someone aspire to move away from something they >>>> really love? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jim Freeze >>>> No matter what other nations may say about the United States, >>>> immigration is still the sincerest form of flattery. >>> >>> >>> >>> I started a company in 1987. I believe that by 1993 we must >>> have been 15 people. I was a programmer. A version 2 of our >>> major product was starting. A year after I realized that there >>> was an issue. Informal communication was not working anymore. >>> Bug fixing was constantly delayed. Deadlines were missed. >>> I then realize that there was a need for somebody to organize >>> thing so that the product would survive. That is when I >>> became a manager I guess. A few years latter I was hired as >>> VP Engineerer of some startup. After the Internet bubble >>> explosion I worked fixing my old house. Now I am back to >>> programming. I have always loved that. But at some point I >>> really felt like there was a need for a manager, I loved >>> the result of programming (The Product) more than my >>> contributions to it and I kind of put aside my programming >>> pleasure to help the product succeed. That worked, very >>> well, I don't regret it at all. >>> >>> Not mentioning the fact that as VP Engineerer, I was making >>> more money that will ever be possible for a programmer in >>> my country, France. I needed that money to fix my old house. >>> >>> This story may give you some ideas about why somebody would >>> move away from something she/he really like. >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>> JeanHuguesRobert >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Web: http://hdl.handle.net/1030.37/1.1 >>> Phone: +33 (0) 4 92 27 74 17 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > >