From: duerst@... Date: 2018-10-12T11:11:17+00:00 Subject: [ruby-core:89387] [Ruby trunk Feature#14839] How to deal with capitalizing Georgian in Unicode 11.0.0 Issue #14839 has been updated by duerst (Martin D��rst). webzorg (Lasha Abulashvili) wrote: > Giia (George Pheikrishvili) wrote: > > Lasha, if someone calls *`mkhedruli.upcase`*, all letters shall be converted to Mtavruli letter, why do you think it should not do anything? > > I was thinking, maybe because it is misleading, foreigners may think that those are real upcase versions of Georgian letters, but it is totally separate alphabet, and most of even Georgians don't know how to recognize them. I was surprised when I read that. I don't read any Georgian, but I have looked at the mkhedruli and MTAVRULI charts, and I wouldn't have problems reading one of them if I knew the other. > Maybe call the method `"������������������������".to_mtavruli` ? At the Ruby developers' meeting on Wednesday in Tokyo, somebody mentioned that the situation with mkhedruli and MTAVRULI has some parallels with Hiragana and Katakana in Japanese (one of the similarities is that it would be extremely odd to start a word with one of these, and then continue with the other). But we don't have any `String#to_hiragana` or `String#to_katakana` method in Ruby yet. > update: I read the http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode11.0.0/ch07.pdf and now I cleared up my confusion with Mtavruli and Asomtavruli, I initially assumed you meant mkhedruli would get converted to Asomtavruli. Ah, I see. Asomtavruli indeed looks quite a bit different, but I understand that it's mostly historical. > Was not familiar with Mtavruli at all. I'd still say there's room for debate whether this should become a convention or not. Mtavruli looks like to be a good fit for commercials or newspaper headlines Yes. But so is UPPER CASE for Latin, Cyrillic,... > but I wouldn't say that it necessarily should be part of unicode or ruby for that matter. It looks more applicable to css/custom-fonts than backend technologies. disclaimer: I am not a philologist. It was apparently handled by custom fonts for a long time. And there was quite a long discussion in Unicode and ISO about how to handle it. The conclusion was that it should be added to Unicode. Here are pointers to some of the documents in that discussion: https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2017/17199-n4827-mtavruli.pdf (this is in both Georgian and English) http://www.unicode.org/wg2/docs/n4827-mtavruli.pdf (same, ISO version) http://www.unicode.org/wg2/docs/n4776-mtavruli-support.pdf (letter from Minister of Education and Science of Georgia in support) http://www.unicode.org/wg2/docs/n4707-georgian.pdf (contains some actual examples) Given that MTAVRULI is now in Unicode, Ruby has to handle it somehow. I'm not sure we can find a solution that makes everybody happy, but we want to make sure we don't do it completely wrong. So any further feedback is appreciated! ---------------------------------------- Feature #14839: How to deal with capitalizing Georgian in Unicode 11.0.0 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14839#change-74427 * Author: duerst (Martin D��rst) * Status: Feedback * Priority: Normal * Assignee: duerst (Martin D��rst) * Target version: ---------------------------------------- This is a request for feedback. In particular if you are from Georgia (the country, not the US state), or if you know somebody (who knows somebody,...) from Georgia, feedback on this issue is very much appreciated. If I don't get any feedback, I'll precede as explained below. Unicode 11.0.0 introduces an upper-case version of present-day Georgian letters called Mtavruli (the lower case letters are called Mkhedruli). Mtavruli letters are only used to empthasize whole words; there is no initial-letter capitalization in Georgian. Therefore, the Mkhedruli letters do not have Mtavruli letters as their titlecase, but are explicitly mapped to themselves. This means that in Ruby, `mkhedruli.capitalize` would be a no-op although `mkhedruli.upcase` would convert to Mtavruli letters. Additional pointers: http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode11.0.0/#Migration http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/Unicode-11.0/U110-1C90.pdf http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode11.0.0/ch07.pdf (Section 7.7, Georgian, pp. 320-321) -- https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/ Unsubscribe: