[#5737] returning strings from methods/instance_methods — TRANS <transfire@...>

I was just wondering why with #methods and #instance_methods, it was

11 messages 2005/09/08

[#5796] proposed attr writer patch — Daniel Berger <Daniel.Berger@...>

Hi all,

18 messages 2005/09/16

[#5798] Makefile error in OpenSLL extension (on Windows) — noreply@...

Bugs item #2472, was opened at 2005-09-16 18:56

11 messages 2005/09/17
[#5800] Re: [ ruby-Bugs-2472 ] Makefile error in OpenSLL extension (on Windows) — nobu.nokada@... 2005/09/17

Hi,

[#5851] Re: RubyGems in Ruby HEAD — Paul van Tilburg <paul@...>

Hi all,

34 messages 2005/09/21
[#5867] Re: RubyGems in Ruby HEAD — mathew <meta@...> 2005/09/21

Paul van Tilburg wrote:

[#5870] Re: RubyGems in Ruby HEAD — Marc Dequènes (Duck) <Duck@...> 2005/09/21

[#5920] Re: RubyGems in Ruby HEAD — mathew <meta@...> 2005/09/22

Marc Dequ竪nes (Duck) wrote:

[#5926] Re: RubyGems in Ruby HEAD — Pascal Terjan <pterjan@...> 2005/09/23

On 9/22/05, mathew <meta@pobox.com> wrote:

[#5931] Re: RubyGems in Ruby HEAD — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/23

On 9/23/05, Pascal Terjan <pterjan@gmail.com> wrote:

[#5898] Delegate and Forwardable Documentation — James Edward Gray II <james@...>

I've tried to send these files through a couple of times now with

17 messages 2005/09/22
[#5911] Re: Delegate and Forwardable Documentation — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2005/09/22

On Sep 22, 2005, at 9:02 AM, James Edward Gray II wrote:

[#5924] Re: Delegate and Forwardable Documentation — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2005/09/23

On Sep 22, 2005, at 11:53 AM, James Edward Gray II wrote:

[#5941] Re: Delegate and Forwardable Documentation — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2005/09/23

Hi,

[#5942] Re: Delegate and Forwardable Documentation — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2005/09/23

On Sep 23, 2005, at 10:54 AM, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

[#5947] Re: Delegate and Forwardable Documentation — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2005/09/23

Hi,

[#5921] Mutually dependent libs double loading. — TRANS <transfire@...>

I'm on Ruby 1.8.2.

14 messages 2005/09/23
[#5923] Re: Mutually dependent libs double loading. — Florian Gro<florgro@...> 2005/09/23

TRANS wrote:

[#5985] Finally an answer to my RubyGems question and some small suggestions — TRANS <transfire@...>

I appreciate those that attempted to offer me some info on this issue.

9 messages 2005/09/26

[#6001] Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem — TRANS <transfire@...>

I've added namespaces to require. Works like this:

94 messages 2005/09/26
[#6002] Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/26

On 9/26/05, TRANS <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

[#6003] Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem — TRANS <transfire@...> 2005/09/26

On 9/26/05, Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

[#6005] Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/26

On 9/26/05, TRANS <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

[#6007] gems is a language change, not a pkging system (Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem) — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...> 2005/09/26

Quoting halostatue@gmail.com, on Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 06:02:07AM +0900:

[#6013] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system (Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem) — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/27

On 9/26/05, Sam Roberts <sroberts@uniserve.com> wrote:

[#6014] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...> 2005/09/27

Quoting halostatue@gmail.com, on Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 10:29:17AM +0900:

[#6015] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2005/09/27

On Sep 26, 2005, at 8:54 PM, Sam Roberts wrote:

[#6016] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...> 2005/09/27

Quoting james@grayproductions.net, on Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 11:06:01AM +0900:

[#6018] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/27

On 9/26/05, Sam Roberts <sroberts@uniserve.com> wrote:

[#6019] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Sam Roberts <sroberts@...> 2005/09/27

Quoting halostatue@gmail.com, on Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 11:49:14AM +0900:

[#6024] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/27

On 9/27/05, Sam Roberts <sroberts@uniserve.com> wrote:

[#6025] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Ralph Amissah <ralph.amissah@...> 2005/09/27

> Right now, they're watching people who have pretty much sat on the side

[#6026] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/27

On 9/27/05, Ralph Amissah <ralph.amissah@gmail.com> wrote:

[#6043] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Ralph Amissah <ralph.amissah@...> 2005/09/28

I'll greatly weaken my post, and give everyone the opportunity to head me

[#6044] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Hugh Sasse <hgs@...> 2005/09/28

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005, Ralph Amissah wrote:

[#6073] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Mauricio Fern疣dez <mfp@...> 2005/09/28

Hello,

[#6074] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Jim Weirich <jim@...> 2005/09/29

On Wednesday 28 September 2005 07:35 pm, Mauricio Fern疣dez wrote:

[#6017] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/27

On 9/26/05, Sam Roberts <sroberts@uniserve.com> wrote:

[#6046] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — "Sean E. Russell" <ser@...> 2005/09/28

On Monday 26 September 2005 22:41, Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#6050] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — Hugh Sasse <hgs@...> 2005/09/28

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005, Sean E. Russell wrote:

[#6207] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system — "Sean E. Russell" <ser@...> 2005/10/10

On Wednesday 28 September 2005 08:54, Hugh Sasse wrote:

[#6045] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system (Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem) — "Sean E. Russell" <ser@...> 2005/09/28

On Monday 26 September 2005 21:29, Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#6048] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system (Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem) — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/28

On 9/28/05, Sean E. Russell <ser@germane-software.com> wrote:

[#6059] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system (Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem) — Dominique Brezinski <dominique.brezinski@...> 2005/09/28

On 9/28/05, Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

[#6061] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system (Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem) — Austin Ziegler <halostatue@...> 2005/09/28

On 9/28/05, Dominique Brezinski <dominique.brezinski@gmail.com> wrote:

[#6062] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system (Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem) — Dominique Brezinski <dominique.brezinski@...> 2005/09/28

For what it is worth, I live life behind an authenticated proxy, so I

[#6099] Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system (Re: Require Namepaces and RubyGems' effect on LoadPath problem) — "Sean E. Russell" <ser@...> 2005/09/30

On Wednesday 28 September 2005 08:43, Austin Ziegler wrote:

[#6009] Re: ruby 1.8.3 (2005-09-21) [i486-linux] sisu segfault — Ralph Amissah <ralph.amissah@...>

(i) correction, segfault is with official ruby 1.8.3 (2005-09-21), not

21 messages 2005/09/27
[#6010] Fwd: ruby 1.8.3 (2005-09-21) [i486-linux] sisu segfault — Ralph Amissah <ralph.amissah@...> 2005/09/27

[sorry for duplicate post]

[#6079] Re: Fwd: ruby 1.8.3 (2005-09-21) [i486-linux] sisu segfault — ts <decoux@...> 2005/09/29

>>>>> "R" == Ralph Amissah <ralph.amissah@gmail.com> writes:

[#6081] Re: Fwd: ruby 1.8.3 (2005-09-21) [i486-linux] sisu segfault — ts <decoux@...> 2005/09/29

>>>>> "t" == ts <decoux@moulon.inra.fr> writes:

[#6082] Re: Fwd: ruby 1.8.3 (2005-09-21) [i486-linux] sisu segfault — Tanaka Akira <akr@...17n.org> 2005/09/29

In article <200509291419.j8TEJYid015419@moulon.inra.fr>,

Re: gems is a language change, not a pkging system

From: Sam Roberts <sroberts@...>
Date: 2005-09-27 01:54:30 UTC
List: ruby-core #6014
Quoting halostatue@gmail.com, on Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 10:29:17AM +0900:
> On 9/26/05, Sam Roberts <sroberts@uniserve.com> wrote:
> > Its not a packaging system, its not an addition to the standard library,
> > it is a change in the behaviour of one of the most fundamental of Kernel
> > methods.
> 
> It is a packaging system, it is an addition to the standard library.
> It *is also* a change in behaviour, but it is one that will behave
> *very preditably* and without harm to those who choose -- through one
> means or another -- to not use RubyGems.

No harm?

You, user of rubygems, state this as supposed fact.

Others, not users of rubygems, do not have this experience of "no harm".

Dismissing all code that is harmed as unncessary is missing the point.
Depending on the language require mechanism to work as they always have
is not wrong, changing it mid-stream is.

> > I fail to see the need for language support for a particular packaging
> > system. I don't see why the need for versioned lib dependencies for
> > rails requires a language change, I don't see why packaging requires a
> > language change, and I don't see why versioned dependencies and
> > packaging are so strongly coupled that you are forced to eat the
> > language change in order to install a library.
> 
> Then you fail to see the point in general. Ruby needs something that
> works similar to -- but better than -- CPAN. This means a packaging
> system. You may not see it, but those of us who have to deal with
> other platforms see it.

Nowhere do I imply that ruby doesn't need a packaging system. I said the
opposite.

In particular, it needs a packaging system that is not tied to
versioning.

> > They should be decoupled, require does NOT have to be changed in order
> > to support package distribution. Split versioning into an optional
> > facility for those who need it.
> 
> This is also a fundamental misunderstanding of what has to be changed.

The require change is for versioning, not packaging.

If you believe that the language change is fundamental to get packaging
"similar to -- but better than -- CPAN", feel free to point out why, and
why such a language change wasn't required for Perl (or C, or ...).

Sam



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