From: v.ondruch@...
Date: 2013-02-16T02:24:19+09:00
Subject: [ruby-core:52289] Re: p385 breaks bakward compatibility

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Dne p=C3=A1tek, 15. =C3=BAnora 2013 12:20:18 UTC+1 Alex Chaffee napsal(a):
>
> 1. Your Gemfile doesn't specify any sources. If it did, Bundler could fin=
d=20
> whatever version of rdoc it needs.  Read=20
> http://gembundler.com/man/gemfile.5.html=20
>
Not sure what is the relevance here
=20

>
> 2. Your Gemfile.lock file is probably locking to a version of rdoc that=
=20
> doesn't exist in your new installation of Ruby. Do "bundle update" to res=
et=20
> your Gemfile.lock.=20
>

Clearly not, because I update Ruby in the meantime, therefor RDoc 3.9.4=20
were replaced by RDoc 3.9.5, that is the point. I don't want to run bundle=
=20
update. Note that I am speaking as of packager of Ruby on Fedora. There is=
=20
no way for me to know where are you application installed and how to call=
=20
"bundle update" on them.
=20

>
> 3. Updating Ruby is not guaranteed to copy over old gems into your new=20
> installation. RVM can be told to do this but it appears that yum does not=
.=20
>

This is irrelevant. RDoc is bundled in Ruby and I worked with plain Ruby=20
installation.=20

>
> 4. My version of Bundler warns me when my Gemfile has no sources when I d=
o=20
> "bundle install". Since you never ran "bundle install" (despite it clearl=
y=20
> telling you to) I have no idea if you're using the latest version. Do "ge=
m=20
> update bundler" to install the latest.=20
>
> 5. Dot releases are not guaranteed not to break anything. Read semver.org=
for one (popular, but not mandatory) interpretation of what release numbers=
=20
> should promise.=20
>

Yes, semver guarantees that, but bundler does not reflect that, since the=
=20
versions are locked. I have to do something more, such as "bundle update"=
=20
to actually update my application
=20

>
> 6. Gems are kind of complicated, but once you understand the basics,=20
> they're pretty easy to use. I see no bug here, just you misunderstanding=
=20
> the tools.=20
>

I know what gems are ... but you live just in gems world. I live in the=20
world where gems are repackaged and somebody relies that nothing breaks due=
=20
to update and I don't have to run some additional commands due to update.
=20

>
> 7. You do realize what version numbers are for, right? Version numbers=20
> identify versions. If the code changes, even to fix a bug, it's not the=
=20
> same code, which means it's a different version. So it needs a new versio=
n=20
> number.=20
>

Yes, I do realize. And therefore Bundler should respect ~> dependency and=
=20
automatically pickup newer version, not just rely on Gemfile.lock.


V=C3=ADt=20


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<br><br>Dne p=C3=A1tek, 15. =C3=BAnora 2013 12:20:18 UTC+1 Alex Chaffee nap=
sal(a):<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.=
8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>=
1. Your Gemfile doesn't specify any sources. If it did, Bundler could find =
whatever version of rdoc it needs. &nbsp;Read&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:'.HelveticaNeueUI';font-size:15px;line-height:19px;white-space:nowrap"><=
a href=3D"http://gembundler.com/man/gemfile.5.html" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//gembundler.com/<wbr>man/gemfile.5.html</a>&nbsp;</span></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div>Not sure what is the relevance here<br>&nbsp;<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><span style=3D"=
font-family:'.HelveticaNeueUI';font-size:15px;line-height:19px;white-space:=
nowrap"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:'.HelveticaNeueUI'=
;font-size:15px;line-height:19px;white-space:nowrap">2. Your Gemfile.lock f=
ile is probably locking to a version of rdoc that doesn't exist in your new=
 installation of Ruby. Do "bundle update" to reset your Gemfile.lock.&nbsp;=
</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Clearly not, because I update Ruby=
 in the meantime, therefor RDoc 3.9.4 were replaced by RDoc 3.9.5, that is =
the point. I don't want to run bundle update. Note that I am speaking as of=
 packager of Ruby on Fedora. There is no way for me to know where are you a=
pplication installed and how to call "bundle update" on them.<br>&nbsp;<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8=
ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><=
span style=3D"font-family:'.HelveticaNeueUI';font-size:15px;line-height:19p=
x;white-space:nowrap"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:'.He=
lveticaNeueUI';font-size:15px;line-height:19px;white-space:nowrap">3. Updat=
ing Ruby is not guaranteed to copy over old gems into your new installation=
. RVM can be told to do this but it appears that yum does not.&nbsp;</span>=
</div></div></blockquote><div><br>This is irrelevant. RDoc is bundled in Ru=
by and I worked with plain Ruby installation. <br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:'.HelveticaNeueUI';font-size:15px;line-height:19px;white-space:nowrap"><=
br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:'.HelveticaNeueUI';font-siz=
e:15px;line-height:19px;white-space:nowrap">4. My version of Bundler warns =
me when my Gemfile has no sources when I do "bundle install". Since you nev=
er ran "bundle install" (despite it clearly telling you to) I have no idea =
if you're using the latest version. Do "gem update bundler" to install the =
latest.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:'.HelveticaNeueUI=
';font-size:15px;line-height:19px;white-space:nowrap"><br></span></div><div=
><span style=3D"font-family:'.HelveticaNeueUI';font-size:15px;line-height:1=
9px;white-space:nowrap">5. Dot releases are not guaranteed not to break any=
thing. Read <a href=3D"http://semver.org" target=3D"_blank">semver.org</a> =
for one (popular, but not mandatory) interpretation of what release numbers=
 should promise.&nbsp;</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Yes, semver =
guarantees that, but bundler does not reflect that, since the versions are =
locked. I have to do something more, such as "bundle update" to actually up=
date my application<br>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><br></div><div>6. Gems are kind of complica=
ted, but once you understand the basics, they're pretty easy to use. I see =
no bug here, just you misunderstanding the tools.&nbsp;</div></div></blockq=
uote><div><br>I know what gems are ... but you live just in gems world. I l=
ive in the world where gems are repackaged and somebody relies that nothing=
 breaks due to update and I don't have to run some additional commands due =
to update.<br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><div><br>7. You do realize what version numbers are for, righ=
t? Version numbers identify versions. If the code changes, even to fix a bu=
g, it's not the same code, which means it's a different version. So it need=
s a new version number.&nbsp;</div></div></blockquote><div><br>Yes, I do re=
alize. And therefore Bundler should respect ~&gt; dependency and automatica=
lly pickup newer version, not just rely on Gemfile.lock.<br><br><br>V=C3=AD=
t&nbsp;</div><br>
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